OTTAWA 鈥 Former attorney general Jody Wilson-Raybould was cautioned about a potential 鈥渃ollision鈥 with the prime minister over the SNC-Lavalin file by outgoing Privy Council Clerk Michael Wernick, a newly-released audio recording reveals. This caution came a month before she was shuffled out of her role, and nearly two months before the scandal began unfolding publicly.
According to an audio recording of a conversation that the pair had, submitted to the House Justice Committee by Wilson-Raybould, Wernick said he was worried what might happen if Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Wilson-Raybould remained at 鈥渓oggerheads鈥 about whether or not to offer a deferred prosecution agreement to the Quebec engineering firm.
In the audio, Wilson-Raybould can be heard issuing repeated and stern warnings that senior officials pressuring her over the SNC-Lavalin case would 鈥渓ook like nothing but political interference鈥 if the Quebec construction and engineering company were granted deferred prosecution. By the time of her recorded conversation with Wernick, Wilson-Raybould says she had already endured months of intense lobbying from such officials.
She said in the audio that she was absolutely confident in her decision -- to back the Director of Public Prosecutions鈥 decision not to grant the agreement and to continue pursuing the criminal charges -- and in response, Wernick said he was 鈥渨orried about a collision then because he is pretty firm about this. I just saw him a few hours ago and this is really important to him.鈥
In a statement late Friday, Trudeau鈥檚 office said that he was 鈥渘ot briefed by the Clerk on his conversation with Jody Wilson-Raybould,鈥 and that the PMO was 鈥渦naware of the full contents of this recording before today.鈥
The PMO statement reiterates that Trudeau wishes she would have gone to him directly about the matter, reinforcing his message that there 鈥渨as clearly an erosion of trust over the past few months鈥 between all key actors in this affair.
鈥淚 don't get the covert ops program or holding on to the tape for a convenient moment,鈥 Wernick鈥檚 lawyer Frank Addario said in a statement, according to The Canadian Press. According to his lawyer, Wernick was not aware the call had been recorded until it was released on Friday.
鈥淪he was the chief legal officer for the country. She didn't give her tape to the RCMP. She didn't give it to the PM or the Ethics Commissioner. She didn't even give it to the committee when she first testified. Most peculiar,鈥 CP quotes him as saying.
The 17-minute audio file was provided to all members of the House Justice Committee on Friday, as part of the new and supplementary evidence related to the SNC-Lavalin scandal that she handed over days ago.
The also includes a 21-page written statement, as well as screen shots of text messages and copies of emails that she referenced during her initial testimony, adding more fodder to the continuously developing controversy that鈥檚 dominated political headlines for the last two months.
The secret recording is of a Dec. 19 phone call with Wernick that both parties have previously testified to. In the recording Wilson-Raybould can be heard saying that she was trying to protect Trudeau by issuing these cautions about prosecutorial independence.
She said the way the case was being handled 鈥渟creams of鈥 political interference and that while she agrees jobs are important, the issue is how it would look if federal prosecutors dropped the criminal charges of fraud and corruption, in exchange for a remediation agreement.
Throughout the scandal -- which touched off on Feb. 7 when The Globe and Mail reported that Wilson-Raybould faced pressure to interfere in a criminal case against SNC-Lavalin -- the federal Liberals have cited the 9,000 jobs at stake as their main motivator for any actions in this case.
Should SNC-Lavalin be found guilty, they could face a 10-year ban on applying for federal contracts, leading to the company having to move out of Canada.
鈥淚 feel that I am giving him my best advice. And if he doesn鈥檛 accept that advice then it鈥檚 his prerogative to do what he wants. But I鈥檓 trying to protect the prime minister from political interference, perceived or otherwise,鈥 she said.
Wernick -- who was not made aware during the recording that he was being taped -- can also be heard saying that he 鈥渞espects鈥 where Wilson-Raybould was coming from, but that Trudeau鈥檚 view was that 鈥渉e鈥檚 not asking you to do anything inappropriate or to interfere. He鈥檚 asking you to use all the tools that you lawfully have at your disposal, Wernick said.
鈥淵ou鈥檙e not just being attorney general, you鈥檙e the minister of justice and a cabinet [minister] 鈥 and, you have context within which you exercise your roles and your responsibilities. Like, I鈥檓 not seeing anything inappropriate here,鈥 Wernick can be heard saying.
Chair of the committee, Anthony Housefather, has said that "no redactions have been made" to Wilson-Raybould鈥檚 submission by the committee, though there are portions of the submission that appear to have been redacted by Wilson-Raybould before it was submitted.
Wilson-Raybould, who is still a member of the Liberal caucus, provided this evidence to further bolster the testimony she gave to the committee on Feb. 27, and to respond to contradicting stories that others have offered since her appearance.
RECORDING OF CALL WITH WERNICK
During her initial testimony on this phone call, Wilson-Raybould said she was alone and took the call from home. She said that Wernick wanted to communicate where Trudeau was at regarding the file, and spoke about the company potentially moving its headquarters.
She quoted him saying 鈥淚 think he is going to find a way to get it done, one way or another....So he is in that kind of mood, and I wanted you to be aware of it.鈥
When asked about this call during his follow up testimony, Wernick said that it was not his recollection of that call. 鈥淚 did not wear a wire, record the conversation or take extemporaneous notes,鈥 Wernick said.
鈥淚 never raised partisan considerations at any time. I reminded her repeatedly that she was the final decision-maker. I did not attempt to influence her decision. I was giving her relevant context about public interest considerations for a decision that was hers to take. I never suggested consequences for her,鈥 Wernick testified.
The audio call largely confirmed Wilson-Raybould鈥檚 testimony, but also backed up Wernick鈥檚 assertion that he did not make any direct partisan considerations, like Quebec votes, which Wilson-Raybould has alleged she was consistently reminded of while the file was on her desk. Though he did cite a 鈥渞ising anxiety鈥 following job losses in Oshawa and tough times in Calgary.
In the recording you can hear her taking a deep breath before the conversation begins.
鈥淚 actually feel really uncomfortable having this conversation because it鈥檚 wrong,鈥 Wilson-Raybould says on the tape.
鈥淒oes he understand the gravity of what this potentially could mean? This is not just about saving jobs. This is about interfering with one of our fundamental institutions. This is like, breaching a constitutional principle of prosecutorial independence,鈥 Wilson-Raybould asks Wernick about Trudeau.
鈥淲ell I don鈥檛 think he sees it as that,鈥 Wernick said, offering that it was a case of people talking past eachother.
鈥淲ell then nobody鈥檚 explaining that to him, Michael,鈥 she replied.
The conversation ended with Wilson-Raybould saying that she was 鈥渨aiting for the other shoe to drop,鈥 and that "I am not under any illusion how the prime minister has and gets things that he wants. I am just stuck doing the best job that I can."
After she got off the call, the new evidence shows that she texted her then-chief of staff Jessica Prince that 鈥渢he s**** is going to hit the fan.鈥
In her written submission Wilson-Raybould said she recorded the conversation because she 鈥淚 had reason to believe that it was likely to be an inappropriate conversation.鈥 She said she had never done this before, and has not done so since, recognizing that her recording of this conversation would otherwise be inappropriate
Law societies in Canada prohibit lawyers from knowingly recording conversations with clients without their knowledge, including the Law Society of Ontario, which Wilson-Raybould belongs to. In a statement the Society told CTV News that it 鈥渄oes not comment on possible breaches of the Rules of Professional Conduct."
鈥淚 did this simply to ensure that my notes were accurate and given the ongoing pressure and attempts to interfere in this case, the nature of conversations that had occurred鈥 and my strong suspicion that this matter would continue to escalate in even more inappropriate ways,鈥 she wrote.
Her unprecedented decision to then make the recording public as part of her submission was done, she says, to allow Canadians to decide for themselves whether Wernick鈥檚 comments amount to the 鈥渧eiled threats鈥 that she alleges, and which he denies.
Wernick will soon be retiring from his job as Canada鈥檚 top public servant, a decision he says is because there "is no path for me to have a relationship of mutual trust and respect with the leaders of the Opposition parties," after both the Conservatives and New Democrats have called for his resignation given his role in the still unfolding controversy.
COPIES OF TEXTS, EMAILS
In her initial hours-long committee appearance she offered an in-depth account of approximately 20 exchanges --10 phone calls and 10 meetings -- specifically on the SNC-Lavalin case. She also worked through a chronology of communications, ranging from in-person meetings and phone calls, to text messages and emails, from 11 senior staffers from the Prime Minister's Office, Privy Council Office and the finance minister's office.
Throughout her testimony, she cautioned there were limitations in her ability to speak broadly about the case because of the specifics of the waiver of solicitor-client privilege and cabinet confidence that Prime Minister Justin Trudeau had issued.
What she has handed over to the committee stays within the lines of what is permitted in the waiver, which includes any relevant information related to the case against SNC-Lavalin over her years-long tenure as attorney general.
Contained within the new documents are transcripts as well as screen shots of conversations she or Prince had. These include email exchanges with members of Finance Minister Bill Morneau鈥檚 office who the documents describe as being involved in the 鈥渕ucking around鈥 on the case.
In one it details a phone call Prince had with Morneau鈥檚 deputy chief of staff Justin To, in which he allegedly said that Wilson-Raybould had 鈥渁 philosophical problem鈥 with the entire promise of a deferred prosecution agreement, which remains a yet-to-be-used tool that this government passed through an omnibus budget bill last year.
鈥淪he hated it the whole time and wouldn't even use it if we could," To is quoted as saying to Prince, who said that was incorrect.
It also includes the conversation between Wilson-Raybould and Prince about a meeting Prince was asked to have with Trudeau鈥檚 chief of staff Katie Telford and then-principal adviser Gerald Butts.
In the instance of the meeting between Trudeau鈥檚 top two staffers and Prince, the text messages back up Wilson-Raybould鈥檚 telling of the interactions, and contradicts Butts saying during his March 6 committee appearance that 鈥渢here was no urgency to attend that meeting.鈥
The meeting request was labeled 鈥淯RGENT鈥 the documents show.
Though the texts do not offer any evidence to dispute Butts鈥 saying that the recounting of the exchange with Prince was taken out of context and that he had a "very different recollection of that meeting."
MORE DETAILS ON RESIGNATION
Wilson-Raybould鈥檚 submission also shed new light on the series of events that led to her ultimately resigning from her role as veterans鈥 affairs minister, which she was shuffled into in January.
She had previously told the committee that she believed she was shuffled out of her job because of her refusal to change her mind about the case, but in the new statement Wilson-Raybould said she took Trudeau at his word when he insisted that wasn鈥檛 the case.
Though, at the time she says she made the decision to resign if her replacement decided to issue a directive to interfere in the SNC-Lavalin matter, 鈥渁s this would confirm my suspicions as to the reason for the shuffle of me in particular.鈥
A deferred prosecution agreement has not been pursued by current Justice Minister and Attorney General David Lametti, though the government has made signals that they aren鈥檛 ruling it out.
She also confirmed that she was offered the Indigenous services job, as Butts had testified. She said she was shocked they鈥檇 offer it to her since she says she made it clear from the moment the Liberals started assembling a transition team, that she鈥檇 never be able to fill that role.
Wilson-Raybould also said that she had a series of meetings with Trudeau in Vancouver after the initial story broke, and in the days before she ended up resigning from cabinet on Feb. 12.
鈥淭he prime minister stated publicly when issues about the propriety of the government鈥檚 conduct in relation to the SNC matter arose that my ongoing presence in Cabinet spoke for itself. I resigned the next day and I trust my resignation also speaks for itself,鈥 Wilson-Raybould says in her statement.
OPPOSITION RESPONSE
In the opening remarks of the new documents, Wilson-Raybould says her view is that the real issues at the heart of the SNC-Lavalin scandal are not about 鈥渉ow things are 鈥榚xperienced鈥欌 or considerations like caucus dynamics, political ambitions, or poll numbers. Rather she says it is about prosecutorial independence, the rule of law, and Canada鈥檚 democratic institutions.
She also offers that she thinks all sides should be working across party lines to fix what she calls 鈥渇issures and weaknesses鈥 in Canadian institutions, and that she looks forward to a future where 鈥渨e truly do politics differently,鈥 seeming to lean on a phrase Trudeau regularly touted during the 2015 campaign.
The opposition wanted to invite Wilson-Raybould back to testify again -- something she was open to -- but Liberal MPs on the House Justice Committee shut down the study, saying that they鈥檇 heard all they needed to.
Wilson-Raybould also offered that while she has nothing further to add to the formal process, if she was asked or compelled to participate in a future investigation or parliamentary process, she would.
In a statement reacting to the new information, Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer called it 鈥渃oncrete evidence that proves Justin Trudeau led a campaign to politically interfere in SNC-Lavalin鈥檚 criminal prosecution.鈥 He called the entire affair 鈥渃orruption on top of corruption on top of corruption.鈥
NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh said the evidence was 鈥渟o compelling and well-documented鈥 that an independent public inquiry is needed.
鈥淭he PMO has tried to spin this as a miscommunication or personal disagreement鈥 The former Attorney General repeatedly made clear to the Prime Minister and those around him that their inappropriate actions would be seen as political interference 鈥 and they ignored her,鈥 Singh said in a statement.
Since her testimony, Trudeau has faced calls to resign, the House of Commons agenda has been largely usurped by opposition-prompted procedural moves, and several other high-profile officials have resigned amid insistence that nothing improper occurred.
The PMO鈥檚 statement claims that 鈥渁ll facts are on the table now,鈥 and that the Liberal government is focused on 鈥渕oving forward as a team on the issues that matter to Canadians and governing in the best interests of the country.鈥
All eyes are set to be on Parliament Hill when MPs return on Monday, particularly when Liberal MPs convene for their weekly caucus meeting on Wednesday. There, it is likely that the developments that have occurred on this file over the last few days will come up, as some of her colleagues are expected to get up and call for her removal.
With files from Graham Slaughter
